Episode 46: Friendship Break Ups & Hard Conversations

0:00 Welcome to the Fully Express podcast with Karenna. 0:02 I am your podcast host, Karenna Soto. 0:04 And this is the show where we have conversations that fully invite you into your fullest authentic self in life, relationships and business. 0:12 First, I am just feeling so grateful for all of the love that I've been receiving about the, the podcast lately and the different episodes and they have been landing with one another. 0:24 So thank you so much for the text messages, the D MS, the comments and just sharing that these episodes are really meeting you where you are at. 0:34 And thank you. 0:36 So, yeah, I look forward to continuing to hear from you guys and create, right? 0:40 Because this show is truly your show. 0:44 I do my best to make sure that I'm creating shows and inviting guests that meet you where you're at. 0:49 And so one thing you and two, if there's anything specific that you want me to dive in deeper on or a topic that you are really navigating with, as you are stepping into your fullest express self, as you're bringing all of you into this world and stepping into more of you would love to bring that on and I will either talk about it solo or I'd be bring on a beautiful, amazing guest and find that specific guest to talk to you about that for the month of July. 1:17 We've been talking all about friendships and relationships. 1:20 So we're going to continue on talking about friendships, but specifically talking about friendship, breakups and hard conversations. 1:27 If you didn't get a chance to on the previous episode that we just did. 1:32 Number, episode, number 45 we talked about all about sisterhood and what's available to us in sisterhood and how to fully receive sisterhood and the love and the deep intimacy and love that's available to you in sisterhood. 1:47 So make sure you go and check that out with Evan and Paige. 1:49 They are absolutely changing the game. 1:51 They're hosting two incredible retreats. 1:54 One coming up in just a few days as well as another one coming out in the fall. 1:59 So if you're craving deep sisterhood in that way, make sure you reach out to them. 2:03 And for now, we're going to dive into the topic that I truly don't think any of us talk about enough. 2:11 We do not talk about the pain, the, the grieving, the, the difficulty, the challenges, the struggle, the sadness, the disappointment, the frustration, the anger, the lack of clarity, the confusion that comes from when you and your another sister, you and another woman, you and another friend are no longer friends. 2:37 It's, it's really the friendships. 2:39 One, there's so many different types of friendships. 2:42 But the friendships that, for example, you've had in your life for a very, very long time. 2:47 Maybe you met when you were in high school, maybe you met when you were in college and you guys were absolutely inseparable. 2:53 Maybe you would call each other 24 7 as you guys got on the phone and you guys were each other's go to, you guys were each other's self soothing. 3:03 Like you guys really leaned on each other and then there comes a point in your journey in your life where there tends to be friction or tension or misalignment because you two are starting to grow in different directions and, and trying to heal in different ways. 3:20 There's those friendships and there's the friendships that come later in life and you really see that, oh, this could be a really good friend that I want to continue to nurture and grow and you start to nurture and grow that and then all of a sudden you don't hear from them again or you know, as you are stepping into your fullest expressed self wanting more for your life, craving to transform and call in more aligned friendships. 3:45 You know, there's going to be less energy. 3:48 You don't have as much energy to give to all of your friendships for example and hold all of them. 3:54 But maybe you and another friend are just growing at different pace. 3:57 And are officially in different stages and they are not the same siege as you are no longer craving. 4:03 The same things are no longer have the same kinds of conversations anymore because you're craving different conversations. 4:08 Those are all different situations where we can call this like natural separation that comes friendships or we can call them friendship breakups. 4:18 And that's exactly what we're going to be talking about today. 4:22 So giving you an idea of what to expect in this episode is like the solo episode with me is that we're going to talk a little bit about the truth behind, but trying behind growing behind evolving by stepping into your calling, your fullest expressed self in here in this world. 4:40 And what does that actually look like as well as what does it look like to see if it had to have a conversation with your friend about the fact that you are no longer aligned or no longer meeting each other? 4:54 Or you feel like you're completely missing each other in relationship and how to work through that talking about the grieving period, post break up because that part is one of the most hardest parts is just like you realize that you had this sister in your life that you felt so good with. 5:12 At one point, you guys felt like one, you were synchronistic, you were each other's soul sisters. 5:17 And then all of a sudden it doesn't look like that anymore no matter how much on board you are with the process or you're aware that this is for the good or like this is an alignment for you. 5:26 There's still so much pain and struggle that comes with that. 5:31 And then I'm going to to break it down, like how to evaluate if it's worth having a hard conversation with your friend about this topic. 5:40 As you guys know, if you've listened to past episodes, I definitely stand in having hard conversations is one of the most loving things that we can do. 5:49 I think avoiding and ghosting conversations is one of the most unloving thing we can do, which I think is so counterintuitive for most people because they don't want to have the hard conversation because they think they're going to hurt the other person. 6:01 When in reality, we end up hurting the other person so much more by not telling them what's up, not giving them an idea of what you've been going through because I do know if the worlds were reversed, I've been ghosted. 6:16 So raise your hand if you've been ghosted in any kind of relationship, whether that is a business relationship or a romantic partner or a friendship where you thought that like, everything was good and then all of a sudden, like, they're no longer in the picture and you're like, what the fuck? 6:32 And that is such a reality that is so real. 6:37 And I think we go through it much more than we talk about and it's not always going to be the most painful. 6:43 However, there might be some confusion and misunderstanding and depending on the level of intimacy that you reach in your friendships, I think is also the level of hurt or grieving that you're going to experience if you end up moving into. 7:10 that. 7:11 So that's what we're going to talk about. 7:12 We're also going to be talking a lot about just like some, some really good vulnerable stories about what this actually looks like and what it can look like and how it can also be for the good. 7:25 There's just so many different ways to talk about this. 7:27 And my, my biggest thing is I want to, I kind of want to myth bust some of the conversations is like, I think we can get into this place of using term or terminology like best friends, you're gonna be my forever best friend and we really identify with that or like the words like myth busting statements of like real friends never break up. 7:50 You know, those, those kinds of comments or statements are so not true. 7:55 The truth is that yes, friends do break up. 7:58 Yes, you no longer want might not no longer feel safe with the friend, you might be craving something different. 8:06 And what does that look like? 8:07 So there's just so many different nuances here. 8:10 But I just, I really wanted to create space to, to talk about this like fully with you guys. 8:16 So first let, let's talk about just what happened, happens in different levels of friendship. 8:23 And I've kind of, I've categorized this into three, but these are, these three are just 23 points in this large spectrum of friendship. 8:31 And so when it comes to friendship, let's look at one end of the spectrum where you have created this very deep intimacy with your friend, you feel very safe. 8:44 They've seen all parts of you, you feel like they understand you more than any other person. 8:51 And then like you have this deep love and deep care for each other. 8:55 You are there for each other in every single way. 8:57 And there's just so much intimacy and deep connection with one person on the other side of the spectrum, we have friendships that are more surface level like acquaintances, you know, they know a little bit about you, you know a little bit about them, but you haven't really, really broken into the layers of a friendship and then smack right down there in the middle, there's going to be these friends that you're craving to create more relationship with. 9:22 You're in the middle of nurturing that relationship. 9:25 You've started to peel some of those layers and you've started to create some emotional safety with the other person and there's still so much more for you to go, right. 9:35 So that those are the three points of the spectrum that I want you guys to think about and as we think about these different sides of the spectrum and you start to really step into understanding that there might be a friendship breakup here or there might need to be some kind of like letting go of this friendship. 9:57 So I can call in other friendships or letting go of this friendship because it's no longer serving you. 10:03 So some signs that I think are important to identify and this is just purely the way I look at relationships in general. 10:13 I think when relationships no longer meet each other, that's when you start to kind of have these conversations with yourself. 10:20 And so what does it mean to be met? 10:22 It means that you're either emotionally, intellectually soulfully met by this friend. 10:29 There's this give and receive, there's this value that they bring to your life, you feel whole with them, you feel supported with them. 10:38 That is, is friendship, right? 10:42 It's like, oh, we're really connecting, we're really vibing. 10:44 I enjoy relationship with you. 10:46 I can meet you like you understand me, you don't understand me like that's what it really looks like to be met in relationship. 10:54 Now, when it comes to that spectrum that I was talking about, you get to decide where along that spectrum that is a standard or a requirement or a need for you as a human being. 11:07 For example, for me, that is absolutely a need for me in relationships that I am nurturing and see potential in wanting to grow deeper, to all the way down to being deeper, right? 11:19 Because in those spaces I'm saying, hey, I'm open to giving, I'm open to opening up my heart to you. 11:26 And I want to see where this goes and by opening up my heart to you, I'm going to love you. 11:30 I'm going to support you. 11:31 I'm going to see you. 11:32 But there's also that, that chance for rejection, there's that there's that opportunity for like they also not saying that they no longer see me in friendship with them. 11:41 And so what does it look like to have a conscious decision to end a friendship? 11:50 Well, first off a conscious decision to make a friendship and is like, were you taking the time to really reflect if this is a friend that feels good in your life? 12:01 Do you want to keep them? 12:02 Is this a friend in your life that you feel like you receive love and give love back? 12:07 Is this a friend that you feel very safe with or not? 12:11 Is this a friend or a person in your life that you feel excited to see versus not? 12:16 Are you starting to say things like I have to see this person or like are you saying things like I get to see this person and I can't wait, right. 12:26 So really, really taking some time to reflect on the energy and how you feel and seeing these friendships and as you are working through that you get to consciously choose. 12:38 And when I say consciously, I'm literally saying, like not letting your subconscious make the decision for and high your subconscious is going to make the decision for you is by a couple of signs, one is completely avoiding entirely and leaning into your people pleasing tendencies and letting you focus only focus on what the other person needs versus what you want and what you feel is good for you. 13:00 The other unconscious response or subconscious response can be completely being avoidant and dipping out of the conversation. 13:08 So when they send you text messages, you just don't respond or when you, when they reach out to you, they're not a priority. 13:15 And I think those are all signs that the relationship is no longer meeting you in a way or you're being avoidant of a hard conversation about how you're really feeling and you're not sharing how you're feeling. 13:27 So instead of addressing how you're feeling about the person, you completely avoid the conversation in general. 13:34 And so that is an unconscious decision to leave a relationship. 13:37 And I will say in that space is where a lot of people on the other side of that get really hurt. 13:43 And this is the invitation I've been on both sides of this. 13:47 You know, this is the invitation for you instead of being avoidant and leaning in like step into expressing your truth and being honest about where you're at which I'll teach you at the end of this. 13:58 And then secondly, if you're on the other side of that and you're feeling someone pull away and you're confused and you're not unsure. 14:05 And, you know, I also invite you into leaning into that conversation and getting clarity and asking like, hey, like, you know, I feel like there's been some distance in our relationship and, you know, I, I am feeling that and I just want to check in and see what's going on because I do love when you check in on me recently or like, I would love that more of you, whatever that is for you and holding that and subbing into that even though the other person might be avoided. 14:31 Now, I'm not saying that it's not going to be difficult to acknowledge the fact that the other person has been distanced or the other person has stepped away, for example, from the relationship because at the end of the day, it is scary to ask and get clarity. 14:49 But I think there's so much more healing in that versus being left in the gray. 14:57 So how often have you if you're listening to this, ever kept checking in on a friend and calling a friend and they don't respond to your text message. 15:06 It is they don't pick up the phone, they don't give you, but they show up in different ways, but they never actually meet you in that. 15:12 It's very unstable, unclear energy. 15:16 Now, there's also you could argue here that you could practice the desire to be unattached and just flow and, and you know, meet them where they're at. 15:28 And while I agree with that, I think there is this loving space that we can step into where friendships that you have been really deeply intimate with and really love can transition into more of a spacious friendship. 15:42 So maybe they're not in the little moments, but they are definitely more in like the big moments and they're about they're there to celebrate you and still say, reach out and say, I love you and happy birthday and congratulations and like they're thinking about you, but they're not spending a lot of energy on little moments. 16:00 And when you, when you think about that, that is fair and that's valid. 16:06 I also think there's space for that too. 16:08 So now that we've talked a little bit about how to identify if it's time to end a relationship and what that looks like or when to lean into that conversation, I think that's, that's very important. 16:20 And now when you're going through this process, you might also run into the challenges of what does it look like to go through this process when you have mutual friends. 16:32 What does it look like when you are no longer wanting to be in friendship with someone? 16:37 But that earth sin is associated with a friend that you really want to be associated? 16:42 And So the common stance or standard or source of truth that I would always lean into is that we cannot focus on how this person influences a group, a shared space or social circle. 16:57 We have to focus on our individual relationships with each person, right? 17:02 So it's like my relationship with friend, A, my relationship with N B is different. 17:06 My relationship, friend c is different. 17:08 And so I gotta focus on my relationship with friendship, A friend, B and friend C and keeping those lines very, very clear not to go on a tangent here. 17:17 But a lot of the times we can let the fact that, that we heard something from someone else, from a different person or how someone else relates to another person affect how we relate to another person. 17:30 And at the end of the day, that's just simply not fair to yourself or to the other person. 17:35 And so really coming back to, at the end of the day, you got to focus on your relationship with that person and deciding that this is a relationship that you want to continue to nurture. 17:46 You want it to evolve with you, you want to transition whatever that looks like. 17:50 And so you can then move into really navigating these situations or circumstances gracefully. 17:59 And so what does it look like to actually have a hard conversation earlier in the, in the podcast about like probably within the 1st 10 seasons, I did an episode specifically on hard conversations. 18:13 So I really want to invite you into listening to that. 18:16 But in reference to friendships, one of the best advice that I've received recently when it comes to navigating whether to have this conversation or to not have this conversation is like first step into wanting to have that conversation no matter what. 18:33 Right. 18:33 I think the only outlier here is if you, for some reason, do not feel safe, you, for some reason, feel like you might be abused or there's some emotional abuse, physical abuse going on in your relationship with this person and this friendship with this person and you decide that walking away and completely avoiding it is for your own safety. 18:55 I 100% agree with that in other situations, leaning into the conversation and the invitation is here to clarify, explain and share where you are at in the friendship and what you need moving forward. 19:10 And where I say this was the best advice. 19:13 This was it the best advice that I've ever received when it comes to this is evaluating the emotional charity of the other person. 19:21 And so what does that mean? 19:23 So depending on someone's emotional maturity or self awareness of themselves, they may or may not be able to have the conversation that you are wanting to have with them. 19:35 And so what can that look like? 19:37 Maybe you step into having the conversation and, and open the floor and they make it all about you and, or they make it all about them and, you know, they're not really listening and they're just taking it personally, you're becoming the victim. 19:50 It's going to be very, very hard to have a quote unquote conscious friendship, breakup and in communicating that this is no longer a line for me. 19:58 I love you. 19:59 How can we continue to love each other? 20:01 Support each other and also just move on from the relationship. 20:04 On the other hand, you could by chance also run into friendships that are able to have that conversation and recognize that this is the most loving thing that you guys can do for each of yourselves as well as the friendship as a whole. 20:22 And so I'm a huge advocate for leaning into harder conversations with your friends and talking about what's been coming up for you. 20:30 What are you feeling when it comes to this friendship and what you need and what you want? 20:35 Because through that, if you are both coming into the conversation with a very open heart, a loving perspective and definitely curious and wanting to understand the other person's perspective and what they need for themselves as well as what you need for you. 20:54 I believe that we can have more hard conversations without hurting people. 21:00 And that also leaves you with the foundation to if that relationship ever evolves in the future. 21:09 And what does that actually look like? 21:11 And so by being able to have this conversation and leaning into the hard conversations and discussing where you are at and where they are and how you are missing each other or things like that. 21:26 Just really remembering that you are speaking from a place of what's really coming up for you and then taking the chance to really listen to what's coming up for them and then leaning into the next stage of understanding and deciding how you guys are going to meet each other. 21:45 Moving forward. 21:46 This to me is one of the most important things and it's just so important to create a level of honesty with yourself and with your girlfriends where you can be your most authentic fool of self and you can share, this is what's really coming up for me. 22:06 I understand that it's probably not something that you want to hear or that it might be too much or it might be hard, but this is really what I'm experiencing and being able to one be seen in that way by another person is so brave and so courageous what I want to say. 22:22 And it's also going to set the standard for the kinds of relationships that you want to call into the future. 22:28 And so I'm a huge advocate of show up the way that you want to be received, like really put out there, the kind of love and relationships that you want in your life. 22:40 So you can call more of that in and one way of raising that standard or establishing that standard is really by living it yourself, by being a full example to the other person in friendship about what you need and what you want. 22:58 And so as you step into having that harder conversation, as you've identified, the next step is really learning how to navigate the grieving period. 23:09 If you will, the part where you guys are no longer friends, you're no longer checking with each other daily or weekly or monthly or the way that you guys show up for each other looks differently. 23:19 But there's so much love there and, and support and loyalty and curiosity for one another, but it is just simply not the same anymore. 23:30 And so what does that look like? 23:32 One? 23:32 I just want to normalize that after losing a friend or after transitioning a even a friend into a different way that it looks or creating maybe some natural separation between you 21, I think it's so important for you to really realize that it's normal to feel lost. 23:53 It's normal to feel sad. 23:55 It's normal to feel like you lost someone. 23:58 In my personal opinion. 23:59 It's a lot harder to miss someone that's alive, but it's, it's the same thing. 24:03 You know, there's this person is no longer a part of your life in this way that you relate to them. 24:08 And that makes sense. 24:10 That is totally fair and that is totally valid and truthfully at the end of the day missing them can be a part of your healing process. 24:19 And so I don't think it's important to rush this process to just get over it just to forget them. 24:25 It's a sign that you had this deep love for them. 24:28 If you are going through this process and as you're going through this process, it's also such a beautiful opportunity for self reflection and personal growth and whatever that looks like for you, because friendships are just as much of a mirror to us. 24:43 We relate to everyone as mirrors and we don't really do the best job of realizing that, you know, how we relate to our friends is very similar to how we relate to our partners and how our partners are triggers to us and the reflections of us and the same thing here, you know, our friendships, our sisterhoods, our sisters, our relationships with women, adult friends, however, you want to say it are all so a reflection of us and an opportunity for us to see within ourselves as you guys are navigating how you're going to do relationship together. 25:17 You're going to want to also just know what your boundaries are. 25:22 What does that look like? 25:23 And kind of just establish that in the in the conversation as you guys are talking through it because it's going to help you guys move forward, it's going to help you guys move along. 25:32 So a very a good example of this could be like, hey, like, you know, I really want to share with you how I've been feeling. 25:39 I have been finding myself not feeling called to be in our relationship as much. 25:46 And I'm feeling a lot of call to step into these other relationships. 25:50 And I just feel like in our relationship, we're no longer really meeting each other with the way that we want to be loved and supported, which is totally ok. 26:00 And there's nothing wrong with that. 26:02 And I wanted to have this conversation with you one to see if you're also having these feelings too. 26:08 And how can we work through this and how can we find each other in that and transition and evolve our friendship in a way that feels really good to us. 26:17 For example, like I know that for many years in our relationship, I would text you all the time and call you all day long and I no longer feel like I have the capacity to support the friendship in that same way. 26:31 But would you be ok if I still checked in with you, like every couple months and like how your birthday's going and like, you know, so now you're setting up for the relation to transition to look a certain way, a different way than what it has looked like. 26:45 And this is where you get to really reflect on what that looks for you and that after all this happens, of course, it's going to be more levels of reflection and, and growth that happens there. 26:57 And as you guys are listening to this, I think it's really important for me to circle back a little bit and just remind you that this is normal. 27:05 You know, I think one thing that can happen is like when you are struggling with a friendship, breakup or for some reason, you have lost a friend and you think that you're no longer worthy of friends or maybe like there's something wrong with you. 27:19 Like, no, I, I really think that this is just a part of our own personal evolution. 27:25 As we step into our fullest expressed self. 27:28 There are going to be friendship breakups, there are going to be natural selection or natural organic separations that happen in our world as we grow and evolve as humans. 27:39 And the truth is if you're anything like me, the last thing you want to do is let go of those relationships, you want to hold on because there's this dear love for them. 27:49 And I hear you and I understand you and I think that depending on a level of relationship or who you are in relationship with, you can evolve the relationship again into looking a certain way in a way that meets you both. 28:03 Or you recognize that by holding on to this friendship, it is becoming the ceiling of what you're able to call in, in your life, relationships and business, especially if this person no longer aligns with your values. 28:17 This person no longer has the same desires or ideas or not, that we all have to be the same, but they just no longer aligned with you and they're no longer in alignment. 28:27 Like that's totally 100%. 28:30 Ok. 28:31 And it's 100% normal. 28:33 I also don't want to take away from the fact that it fucking sucks to go through a friendship breakup. 28:40 It is one of the shittiest experiences to go through because on some level, maybe for some of us listening, you've created much safer relationships with women than you have created with your partner. 28:53 And when you've created such emotional safety with one another, it's going to be fucking sad. 28:58 It's going to be hard, it's going to be, it's going to be the one of those things and you have to see it. 29:04 I like to see it as like, well, if they're choosing to go down this path, then they are truly truly doing what's best for them. 29:13 And that's all we can do is to trust that they are following their path as much as we are also doing the same is remembering that we're going down our own path and that we are listening to what we feel called and how we want everyone else to also support us and trust us and love us is letting us go on that path. 29:34 And I think one of the most loving thing we can do even more loving than having our conversation is even holding that vision for our friends, even if that looks like no longer us being a part of it. 29:45 And if anything, I would ask for the same thing to come from my friends. 29:51 And so to quickly wrap up this episode, I want to wrap up the fact that, you know, one, I just want to summarize that real friends stay forever. 30:01 Is such a myth is normal to have friendship breakups or for separate your friendships to no longer be aligned or separate naturally organically. 30:10 It is important to recognize when it, when to have a hard conversation with your friend as well as when would it be important to fully step away from a relationship if it feels abusive or unsafe in some way and then just learning how to share what it feels like to not meet each other with the other person. 30:33 So really having that hard conversation and what I love about hard conversations, especially in this state is like, you're in this place of recognizing like, hey, I love you so much and I don't have the capacity to show up in the relationship that way that you need and want and you can still love them and support them in that even though you're not in their life. 30:53 And this is one of the things that you get to do as you step into honoring your truth, really listening and honoring their truth and allowing them to go in their direction that their heart and their soul is calling them to do. 31:09 So. 31:10 With that being said, I would absolutely love to hear from you. 31:15 You can send me an Instagram D M at the fully expressed podcast on Instagram and shoot me at T M. 31:22 Let me know what you think. 31:23 If you have any personal stories, what it was like to go through a friendship breakup and I will make sure to answer them on the podcasts. 31:31 So with that being said, I am sending you so much love. 31:34 Thank you again for listening. 31:36 If there is someone in your life that you feel called to share this with or that you thought about, please reach out to them and share with them the episode. 31:44 I would love to hear from them as well and leave us a review when you get a chance sending you lots of love and thank you. 31:53 Bye bye.