Full Transcript
0:00
Right.
0:00
Welcome to the Fully Expressed Podcast with Karenna.
0:02
I am so excited for today’s conversation because I have a very special person coming on to the podcast.
0:12
As many of, you know, I went through a somatic trauma informed somatic certification last year called the Phoenix Path.
0:19
And my mentor and teacher had is with us today.
0:24
Jessica Benstock.
0:25
Jessica is not only such an amazing human on all ends.
0:29
She has truly, I feel like, I mean, yes, Jess is just simply, I don’t know, you just live so much of everything that you teach and the capacity that you hold is absolutely incredible.
0:45
And the depth and the teachings that you’ve brought to the Phoenix Path has been absolutely amazing.
0:50
So for everyone that’s listening, I do have Jessica Benstock on here with me, Jess.
0:55
Hi, Jess.
0:56
How are you?
0:57
I’m so good.
0:58
I’m so good.
1:00
Yeah, I truly meant like having you here is such a special thing for me because the Phoenix Path truly was like the solidifying piece to like a lot of my healing journey as just an individual, not even for what I was truly going for, which is what I, what I loved about the Phoenix path, right?
1:18
So for those listening, what the reason why I chose the Phoenix path as the Somatic trauma informed certification that I wanted to go through was I didn’t want someone just to teach me the, the teachings.
1:30
I wanted to experience the teachings and actually go through it so I can actually experience it as a client and truly actually embody what I was learning.
1:37
And that was one of the biggest gifts that the Phoenix back gave me.
1:42
And I really think it’s a testament to just like where you’re at and how much you’ve embodied and how much you’ve been able to show.
1:48
And so I just am so grateful for that program and that opportunity to work with you for like it was six months in total, but we had a month in between.
1:56
So we felt like 6 to 7 months, almost like a whole year.
2:00
Yeah.
2:00
It’s funny how it’s the Phoenix path is like half a year, but scaled out, especially because they have the retreat at the beginning and the retreat at the end feels a lot longer and it feels like that to me too.
2:12
I’m always surprised when we get to the end of a session and I’m like, oh, that wasn’t a whole year, but that definitely felt like a whole year, right?
2:19
It did and, and as much as it felt like, how do I say this?
2:23
Like it was a, it was long, but it felt so fast at the same time.
2:27
Like I don’t even know where the days went when I was going through it.
2:31
I was like, I can’t believe I’m already at four months.
2:33
We’re already at the final retreat.
2:34
How did, how did this happen?
2:36
So yeah, just do you wanna introduce yourself and kind of share with everyone who you are and who you be and how you are and who you show up to be in this world.
2:46
I would love to.
2:47
Yes.
2:48
My name is Jessica Benstock.
2:49
I am 14 years to in my heart.
2:53
It’s my devotion to humanity.
2:55
It’s my, my soul feels like it is here to bring lights and connection back to the places where we need it most which tend to be places that have trauma and places, whether it’s in our personal life or our ancestry that just have really been either in shock frozen, they’ve been disassociated from them or they’ve just needed love in a way that the world around us hasn’t been able to provide that love.
3:22
And there’s a lot of different reasons for that, but I’ve been fascinated with where humanity can be and also how we’ve gotten to where we are.
3:29
So for me, ever since I was a kid that question, but I think a lot of us secretly have and some of us don’t really name is like what happened?
3:38
Like why is everything happening the way that it’s happening right now on earth and how can we change it?
3:46
And so for me that led to a journey starting with really intense spiritual awakening.
3:52
When I was 18, I first got trained in hypnotherapy when I was 18 as well.
3:57
Due to that spiritual awakening and that opened my whole world up to the subconscious.
4:03
And this was back in 2010.
4:04
So hypnotherapy, subconscious healing like that was seen as very, very woo, we didn’t have Joe to spend like making everything normalized in subconscious reprogramming work.
4:15
It was, it was very niche.
4:16
It was very woo.
4:17
There’s a lot of people that had therapy training at the time, they were in that training.
4:22
But at the same time, it was, they would kind of keep it hush, hush that they would do it with their clients because it was still seen as like very alternative somatic healing at the time, was still also seen as very woo.
4:32
And so I learned somatic healing, somatic hypnotherapy was my first introduction to somatic work.
4:37
And they learned four different kinds of hypnotherapy in that training.
4:41
And as someone who grew up in a family that there was so much deep, intense emotion, but no resolution and no repair, like so much just force and intensity of fighting to actually see people going into emotions in a way that you could actually create change and healing and resolution.
5:02
And it wasn’t something that we keep under the rug.
5:04
You know, it was something that we actually like collectively can heal together.
5:08
It lit something off of my soul shamanic work where for four years, I was training under different indigenous leaders and indigenous elders and healing techniques.
5:18
I at one point wanted to surveys and San Pedro.
5:23
So that was like where I was invested in my training and work.
5:26
I taught something called beta healing, which is a subconscious reprogramming method years.
5:32
And then that ended up leading to this is a very like quick snapshot.
5:37
But that also ended up leading to me ending the shamanic path and then studying at meditation school, that was a Western esoteric meditation school that I lived at for three years.
5:49
I trained there for six days a week, 10 hours a day for three years, except for a winter break that we had.
5:55
And from there, it was just a different way of looking at the subtle bodies, looking at emotional healing, work, energetic cultivation, things like that.
6:03
So I’ve, I’ve looked at it from a lot of the psychology, childhood development lens, the somatic healing lens, the hypnotherapy and subconscious reprogramming lens, the shamanic ancestral healing, indigenous lens and also the paths of like meditation and energetic cultivation lens.
6:22
And I always want more.
6:24
It’s a bit of my background, but yeah, constant, constant student to life.
6:29
Yeah.
6:29
Thanks so much for that.
6:30
And that was honestly another reason now that you were talking about it.
6:32
Another reason why I was so drawn to you was because you were bringing in all these different perspectives and like, taking these different perspectives and bring them into one, which was another brilliant thing that I got to witness, like being in your space because I was not only just receiving it from one lens and that’s another thing that I really so badly wanted was to be like, ok, somehow these are all talking about similar things in different ways.
6:57
They all have their specialties.
6:59
But like, how can you hone in on them and bring them together?
7:02
And you even took that through your teachings, which I thought was amazing, like you would share from this angle to that angle to this angle.
7:10
And as you were talking and I do very well in those situations and I learned really well in that.
7:15
So I thought that was absolutely amazing.
7:17
The one question I had that you brought up that I think is so interesting, like the word woo, you know, like I and I use the word War two, but like a lot of the things that we’re talking about now like somatics, one does what does somatics mean?
7:29
That’s one thing that I would love to clarify.
7:31
And so everyone can understand what is Somatics, what does SOMA actually stand for?
7:36
But then two, what was it like to step into something so early on that is becoming more norm today?
7:43
Like I think about this with like cold plunges.
7:46
Like I started co plunging like 56 years ago and like, I found it a long time ago and I loved it when I first came to San Diego, I started doing breathwork but now I’m in San Diego and it’s freaking blown up.
7:56
And I’m like, it’s amazing.
7:58
And at the beginning when I first started talking about a, it all back when I first started talking about breathwork and cold plunges, like it was like, people would look at me like, why are you doing that?
8:07
Like, you know what I mean?
8:09
Like why are you getting in cold water?
8:12
And I’d explain it and I tell them how good I felt afterwards and how my nervous system felt so good.
8:16
And they still look at me like what?
8:19
And then those same people today are now telling me like they’re doing cold plunges and breath work and they’re so excited about it.
8:25
And so I’d love to kind of hear what a what does someone mean?
8:28
But then what was it like to actually be kind of at the front end of that?
8:31
Right?
8:32
Because at least with Peter Levine, like he’s older like this has been around for a long time.
8:38
It’s not something that’s super woo.
8:40
I just don’t think that the awareness of the consciousness of the collective had found it yet the way that it is today.
8:47
Because on Instagram, you see somatics everywhere you see nervous system regulation everywhere.
8:52
So it’s definitely changed and shifted in how this has been presenting itself.
8:57
So I’ll stop talking.
8:59
But all right, Mila, I’m jumping in here real quick to tell you about the fully expressed community because the women that are in this group are phenomenal.
9:09
And if you’re listening to this and you’re a lady, a female or know someone that is female or a lady that is on this path of growth and wanting to continue to evolve as a human being and find their fullest authentic expression in their relationships in their life and their business and relationships and want to be surrounded by a community of women that are dedicated to doing the work themselves.
9:32
I want you in this community.
9:34
I want to invite you into this community.
9:36
I really think that being surrounded by other women that are on the same path that just get you that just totally understand where you’re coming from or where you’re going or where you want to go and wherever that path is and create such a safe space for you to be held in that and encouraged in that is so important for our healing.
9:53
If you find yourself feeling an ounce or a Sprinkle of anxiety or overwhelmed or just uneasiness with the thought of being in a group container about talking about very vulnerable things.
10:05
I just want to encourage you and remind you that I totally understand.
10:09
I totally get it.
10:11
It can be edgy.
10:12
It can be scary to open yourself in that way.
10:16
But in doing so, you end up creating so much more healing.
10:20
I’ve had some of the biggest breakthroughs being in containers that can hold me and being surrounded by other women that are also on this path because I feel like I’m seen and understood.
10:31
And so I truly want to invite you into giving it a chance.
10:34
I’m also offering one month free if you leave a review of the podcast and then you will get access to the next second Wednesday to join us.
10:44
So go ahead and leave a review and I will send you the invitation to see you.
10:49
So you can actually get a taste of what it feels like to be within the community.
10:53
Again, come join us in the muffly expressed community where you only don’t hear from myself and get teachings and somatic practices and meditations and guiding and network nervous system stun regulation.
11:04
But you also get to learn from renowned practitioners, healers, coaches, et cetera that are doing the thing in this world.
11:12
And they have gifts to share with you about what is available to you and you get to take that and crack the code for yourself and how that applies to your life and how that applies to your relationships and how that applies to your business and your brand, your career, et cetera.
11:27
Because for all of us women, I really do envision a world not only for the betterment of ourselves, of why we live on this earth, but as well as our community, as our collective, as the human being, a human population really bringing an opening arms to the woman that is fully expressed that is living in her power, that is so confident and bold and as well as such in her feminine and vulnerable and soft and open to creating that space.
11:57
And so here we’re going to be surrounded by other women that want that and that create that and have this burning desire to be on that path.
12:05
So come join us, leave a review be why I joined for the next one for free.
12:09
And I hope to see you there.
12:11
Really, it is really crazy.
12:12
It’s crazy too.
12:13
I mean, it’s amazing on one end, it’s incredible to watch how things that almost were taboo.
12:20
Like when I first started doing any of this work in 2010, it was, it was kind of weird to mention trauma or your emotions.
12:30
Like it would make people this really awkward in a conversation, right?
12:33
And for me, it was the most fascinating thing or even just like how parts work is just very normally talked about.
12:39
Now.
12:40
It was not that way before I remember specifically like being a a gathering with a bunch of my friends and I was trying to share how, you know, there’s these different sub personalities is what I was first taught, they were called, there’s these different sub personalities.
12:54
We have all of these different parts of our psyche and you can actually contact parts of yourself that you haven’t been in contact with for a long time.
13:01
And other parts can come in and be cultivated from different parts of times in your life.
13:06
And it’s like there’s this switch where teleprompter switch where certain things can turn on so certain things can turn off and like it was crickets, it was like, ok, cool.
13:17
Anyway, and I remember being so excited, you know, and, and now the fact that, and also by the way, most of my family is in western medicine.
13:28
And so the fact that I was gonna go to college and actually didn’t and ended up using a lot of the college money that I had, which wasn’t that much that my parents had saved up to go to this hypnotherapy training and the fact that it was alternative and the fact that it was questionable, like, even to my family who, you know, they still, they actually boomers that went to therapy, but it was still like, I don’t really know what it is that you’re doing and is this reputable.
13:55
And now, and my whole family, I remember my whole family being like, very worried about me, like, I don’t know where she’s going.
14:03
You know, most of them are like college is important.
14:05
School is important.
14:06
You’re doing all these alternative trainings.
14:07
Why are you doing those things?
14:09
And, and then I had people in these trainings, the somatic therapy training, the rest of the hypnotherapy trainings that would come to me and be like, you are so lucky.
14:17
You’re finding this so young because this is, and these are people with phd S.
14:21
These are people with like full on practices that were saying like it’s not now, people aren’t gonna realize it now.
14:28
But in our clientele, like in the room in the sessions, this is the stuff that works the best.
14:34
And I listened to that, you know, and, and I felt very grateful that they came and told me that because it gave me a level of confidence that even when the social world wasn’t reflecting that back, I could see it changing.
14:48
I could see it changing in myself.
14:49
I could see it changing in my practice sessions.
14:51
And then to watch the world start to actually, I think we’re still getting to a place of integration because I think a lot of people talk about it and application of it is completely different.
15:02
And I know we’ll probably get into that.
15:04
But to see that it’s even common for people to talk about trauma to see the amount of people that have watched Gabor Mate’s documentary on trauma to see that people are talking about emotions like it’s, it’s entered into a collective fear at a level where people understand this is important, this affects how I see things, this affects how I am in relationship, this affects my interactions in the world.
15:28
And there’s something in my, my heart that like very much is grateful and it gives me hope.
15:37
You know, the fact that it’s being normalized, it’s not behind closed doors anymore.
15:42
It doesn’t have to be like a hush, hush thing that means something is wrong with you.
15:46
And so I think we’re still in that integration process.
15:49
Like I think a lot of people online with the best intentions or maybe just trying to follow a trend or like the nervous system, somatic somatic feeling in your body.
15:58
And so I need to jump on this trend.
15:59
I’m gonna try to understand it.
16:01
I’m gonna try to get it.
16:02
And so we, we’ve hit this kind of saturation point where people are like everyone’s talking about this.
16:08
But I, you know, you see it in people that come through Phoenix path.
16:12
There’s a lot of people that came through last year that had other trauma trainings from people that were actually very well accredited, but just because they could talk, the talk doesn’t mean that like going into the depth of it and changing that actually is still more rare.
16:27
So I’m looking forward to the inevitable thing when something becomes a trend and then the collective eats it up and then realizes like, wait, something’s not changing.
16:36
Like what do we do about that?
16:37
We’ve seen that with boundaries like the last couple of years, everyone, all of a sudden everyone’s talking about boundaries but then people are like, wait, boundaries aren’t just burning all your bridges.
16:47
I don’t know.
16:48
You know.
16:49
Yeah.
16:49
Like I use the word boundaries but don’t actually mean boundaries.
16:52
And so it’s, there’s this, you know, ma I think collectively so.
16:57
Yeah.
16:58
Yeah.
16:58
I mean, I love what you’re talking to.
16:59
It’s like so much about, like, yes, there are words, like these are words, you can look at the definition of it but like, what does it actually mean to practice it?
17:07
Be it and body, it live it and like be it.
17:11
I think really what it is, I think that’s the most difficult thing.
17:14
And especially with social media.
17:15
Like you hear, you think A plus B equals C and you’re like, but it says A plus B equals C, why isn’t it working?
17:23
And you’re like, no, it is good.
17:24
Like, why isn’t working?
17:26
Yeah, I’m so glad people are asking why it’s not working but people get frustrated and I think brings up a whole another topic.
17:33
This is why I can like, go different directions.
17:34
But like, I think so many people too, like, I have friends and coaches and mentors and people that are quote unquote doing the work, but they find themselves so stuck and finding themselves, like, beating themselves up about like, well, this keeps coming up.
17:49
Why can’t I move through it?
17:51
You know?
17:51
Or like, I thought I worked on this two years ago.
17:55
Why is it back again?
17:56
You know, like this constant thing of, like, we think that if we do A plus B, we’ll see that it’s going to essentially eliminate or cancel or completely, like, move on and move on to the next.
18:07
And I think there is so much there as to what that is and that almost leads me to truly what I wanted to talk about on the podcast was like the permission to feel all parts of me because I, if I’m talking honestly and transparently like, yes, I did so much work before joining the Phoenix path.
18:26
Like I’ve absorbed so many books.
18:28
I listened to so many podcasts.
18:30
I did, I signed up for coaches, I spent a lot of money on coaches, like I was doing the work in the way that I thought was doing the work and it gave me such incredible awareness of what was going on and I was able to embody some of it and like, actually, like, understand some of it.
18:48
But then there were still parts of me that got stuck and like the parts of me that got stuck were the parts of me that I felt like we were either right or wrong.
18:57
Like I was always stuck in between this right or wrong state or I was just like, no, like that’s not ok.
19:03
Like that part can’t be here because it’s quote unquote bad.
19:07
Like, the internal conversations that I had about the parts of you.
19:11
I know you’re probably lighting up right now.
19:13
I love this topic because it’s so crazy comment.
19:17
And it, and most practitioners don’t like, hides under the surface of sessions and it’s insane how most practitioners don’t even catch it and how sneaky it is to us.
19:27
So, I just love that you’re bringing it up because one of my favorite things to talk about.
19:32
Yeah.
19:32
And that’s why I want in Phoenix path I just constantly talking about.
19:36
Yeah.
19:36
And it’s, it was honestly the biggest thing that I talk about so much and honestly a big motivator of like the fully expressed podcasts and like what I’ve stepped into, I know.
19:45
Thank you, love you because I learned that if I wanted to express these parts of me and live these parts of me, I also had to learn and love the parts of me that I so badly wanted to like, say that they were wrong or I wanted to put them away or be like stubborn towards them and that kept me stuck.
20:04
But I think that truly was the thing that kept me stuck from like actually embodying the work and feeling the work and getting into that confident state of where I wanted to be because I subconsciously are parts of me that want to protect me or manage me and I’ll, I’ll throw you the ball after this.
20:19
But like, I, you know, at that time was so much easier for me to say no and I thought that they were wrong, like I had named them as bad and a part of me named them as bad was because of the information that I was also consuming from books, from podcasts from Instagram, which is like a whole another thing that’s fascinating.
20:43
It’s like, because, you know, they say that if you are feeling these things, you should be doing these things or, you know, there was like this, like better way to do things but never truly embodying the shadowy pieces or loving the shadowy pieces.
20:57
And so truly, that was the biggest thing.
20:59
And so I’d love for, to talk about what does that actually mean to welcome all parts of you, what is parts where, how to create space for them and then just like the different dances of like, how does someone actually fall in love with them and like move through that and be with them to the extent that they want to be seen and felt without being completely and also still staying resilient, have faith that it’s all coming together because when you’re in it, it can feel really messy and icky and hard, you know.
21:30
Oh yeah, it can feel like you made your life a little bit messier by get, there were a lot of it messier by getting into it too, which can be really scary.
21:38
And the like that, you know, and I think it, I’ve come to learn that it can prevent people actually from going in because they almost can sense or they’ve heard like, oh, no, if I go in there, I don’t know what’s gonna come out.
21:49
And the truth is you don’t, your whole system has created a way for you to not feel and sequester and survive.
21:56
And that’s beautiful.
21:57
And it’s amazing.
21:58
And it is like, and your life’s not gonna fully change if you don’t fully go into these parts.
22:04
But it’s fascinating what you’re talking about to me where especially people who are more high achieving oriented, but like everyone, but especially people that are more high achieving oriented, which tends to be people who I work with and who I attract because that’s me.
22:18
Don’t realize that when we go into healing work, we take all of that perfectionism, all of the pressure, all of the, like I need to do it, right?
22:27
And we have zero realization that you’re actually creating, you’re super imposing that onto your relationship to yourself and to your work.
22:35
And what I mean by that, that’s a mouthful.
22:37
But basically what I mean by that is if I don’t do this, if I don’t heal this, if I don’t get this right.
22:42
If this part doesn’t change, then I am XYZ.
22:44
Yep.
22:45
So that gives you zero ability to connect with yourself as you are and fundamentally.
22:51
And if you, you can search all throughout different spiritual traditions, different indigenous traditions.
22:57
It’s very Taoist what I’m about to say.
22:59
But it’s also like in vedic work, it’s, it’s in all of this, the truth traditions that are, you know, thousands of years old that the only way to transform is to connect to what is acceptance comes from being connected to what is, it does not come any other way.
23:14
Nothing can actually change other than what is, which sounds obvious, right?
23:19
Of course, nothing can change other than what is be because that’s the only thing that inherently exists.
23:26
But for the complexity of our psychology, especially in the Western world, which is based on achievement based on being a certain way, even if we go in and we’re like, I just want to discover myself.
23:36
We don’t even realize we all have these little and I want myself to be XYZ and I want it to be this part of the vision board.
23:43
And it’s like, well, I don’t know the part of you that like wants to destroy that person that hurt you and then you went to freeze and all of that destructive, intense fiery energy is like hidden somewhere.
23:56
I don’t know if that’s on your vision board.
23:58
Yeah, I don’t know if that fits into your self identity, but like, do you need that part of yourself out here?
24:04
Absolutely.
24:06
Do you need the part of yourself that doesn’t know what’s going on?
24:08
Here.
24:09
Absolutely.
24:10
But that is the piece we miss.
24:13
And it sounds like the piece that you’re talking about around these.
24:17
I don’t know, like maybe ways of saying, oh, you have this symptom.
24:21
So you need to respond in this way to fix it.
24:24
And that’s, that is the thing at the beginning of Phoenix path at the beginning of teaching anything.
24:30
You always teach the principles.
24:31
But you know, like I know as the teacher, I’m gonna teach you guys from the first start about trying to fix yourself and how that doesn’t work and how all the techniques try to fix yourself and it will never work.
24:43
And everyone’s like, yeah, but then when you actually get in and you actually see that in real action the, the way that we go in to try to identify what’s good, what’s bad, what’s right, what’s wrong?
24:57
And also we get so frustrated.
24:59
Why isn’t this part of me changing?
25:01
Well, it’s not changing because you’re not letting it exist as it is and think of yourself as a kid.
25:08
Sorry, sorry, I was just, I can everyone just hear that for a second.
25:11
It’s not gonna change unless you be with it as it is.
25:15
Like, I know it can be crazy for some people like, you know, like it was cringe for me too just to be able to be like you want me to be with this the way that it feels right now and we’re like, yes.
25:28
And they’re like, I don’t want that, you know, like people are like, I don’t want that but keep going.
25:33
I just felt like that’s such a big little piece that it’s like, yeah, stay right here, just everything just here.
25:41
Yeah.
25:41
And I think part of why it’s really hard as we come up again, like, it’s incredibly uncomfortable, right?
25:47
Like when you actually get into a part of yourself that you have experienced shame in, you have been told by your culture or by your parents or by society is wrong or bad or you’ve been punished a bunch for it or you’re, you know, family didn’t have space to hold space for it or it doesn’t match who you think that you need to become.
26:09
So that other people see you as like worthy of love or valid or respectable or whatever it is, right?
26:16
That craft these incredibly beautiful complex identities on, right?
26:23
But we don’t realize that we sequester different parts of ourselves in order for those identities to exist.
26:30
And so when you start to come into a place where like how I identify as this is what’s right.
26:36
This is what’s good.
26:36
This is what I want people to see of me.
26:39
And this is actually what I’m feeling and have another human being actually be really present with you in a session.
26:45
There’s a lot of fancy tricks you can have, but man just learning to have capacity to hold presence and be accepting and embracing and loving.
26:53
And, and I think that’s another thing that I, I teach curiosity because I am a genuinely curious person.
27:00
Like all of my friends know this, I’m constantly asking questions about literally anything because because it’s fascinating to me, everything is fascinating and so like these parts of ourselves, we don’t accept or embrace, we have to learn to be curious about, but they create dissonance.
27:17
It is if it is dissonant, if this feels opposing to my identity or what I’ve been allowed to be or not allowed to be, is so uncomfortable to just be there much less like express it in a way where I may look messy or weird or crazy or whatever it is, right?
27:35
And no matter how normal it may be for you to see that part of someone else and be like, oh, it’s beautiful and be your best self, embrace it.
27:45
You know, when you sh up when you have to be in those parts, it’s so viscerally uncomfortable.
27:51
And I think to your point, if we as practitioners or as leaders are skipping the part of really embracing and exploring and being like, let’s actually pause and not try to fix this about you.
28:06
We miss a huge part of the person sitting in front of us.
28:10
We do them a huge disservice and we unconsciously probably from ways that we were taught or ways we think we need to be to fix ourselves.
28:19
We limit what that person can actually experience of themselves, their innate gifts.
28:25
There.
28:26
Any intelligence?
28:27
I mean, I love it.
28:28
Like, I love when I find out like, in our demo session, I, I will never forget that where we found that part of that.
28:36
I just, I don’t know, I don’t remember the name that we, I don’t know if it was like sassy or like Brady or it was Brady.
28:42
I was like, there’s this really bratty part of me.
28:45
Yeah, we did a demo session and we went down like multiple layers of layers in that session.
28:50
But there was this full on Brady side that was like, no, like not gonna do that like super sassy and like, I could just feel her like within me and I was just, she was like so present.
29:01
Yeah.
29:02
And I like, I mean, it’s amazing how we could have done a whole session and then that part could have just hung out over here the whole time and like been like, yeah, you do that session, you do the other parts of me, you guys do that.
29:15
I’m gonna say over here but it was actually by going into the no and the fuck you.
29:20
And they’re like, I don’t actually want to, you can’t make me that we found like that’s where the goods are.
29:27
Yeah.
29:28
You know, like there.
29:29
So that was like such a I think reflecting back like that was such a, like a, wow, it’s ok for me to act bratty in this moment, you know, and it was like my truth at that time, you know, and I’m so grateful that I’ve been able to like, witness that part of me and that bratty part of me that almost like stubbornness sassiness that was like, literally keeping me from where I wanted to be.
29:51
But like, instead of me just like hopping over the fence and be like, oh, we’re not even gonna be there.
29:56
You know, I’m just gonna hop over real quick.
29:58
Let’s just avoid her and be like, oh, I let me just go to the thing that I want, you know, like I so badly had to learn how to actually be with that part of me and express it and see it and feel her and be in it and hold capacity for her.
30:11
And like all the things, one question that came up that has come up for clients myself and something that I’ve never truly thought.
30:19
But this one client asked me and I’m so curious what you think about this.
30:22
But I’ve gotten the question before of like, why would I express myself if I can’t be helped?
30:27
And like, what’s the point of me showing these parts of me if they’re not gonna be received or they’re not going to be held well?
30:35
Or the person on the other side doesn’t know how to hold me.
30:40
And I think this comes up in relationships sometimes because, you know, as you’re learning to express yourself, maybe you’re just one part of the partner, one partner is learning to express themselves.
30:49
They’re starting to put themselves out there.
30:51
But the other person doesn’t know how to be with what’s coming up.
30:55
And the person that’s trying to express themselves, you can see that they’re trying to manage their experience because at the end of the day, they’re not actually expressing themselves or openly communicating what’s really coming up for them and that can create disconnect in the relationship.
31:08
But like, again, like, why would someone want to express themselves if it’s not going to be held or received?
31:15
Well, what’s the point is the kind of question that I get?
31:18
I mean, it makes sense.
31:19
I want everyone to ask that question risky as fuck.
31:24
Totally.
31:25
Like, OK, so I’m gonna do this thing and this person may not actually give me what they want.
31:30
And I think it’s important in those situations like having parameters or like having, having containers set because some, and this is not the majority of people I know it’s not you.
31:40
But there’s some people that can be like, you know, you like, give them an inch and they’re like, oh, I can just freak out and like go off whenever I want.
31:48
But then there’s also people that are like, you know, so that’s not what we’re talking about, but having a container set where your partner knows and I’m in a whole other phase of this now where your partner knows, hey, I, in these situations sometimes not super direct about exactly what I’m feeling and exactly how I’m feeling.
32:08
And maybe part of that is because I don’t think that you can hold me.
32:11
I don’t think that, you know, I think that you’re gonna leave if you see this part of me, which is very like, I’m gonna be abandoned.
32:18
You know, there’s so many different reasons why we feel that stuff.
32:21
And so what I hear behind the question of like, well, what’s the point is actually if I do X, why is gonna happen?
32:30
Why would I do X?
32:32
And so there’s a sense of risk.
32:35
I think that ultimately, it’s kind of hiding behind that.
32:39
So that’s kind of like the question kinda within a question.
32:43
But I mean, the question directly is when we actually give ourselves space to feel fully and express fully what is actually happening inside of ourselves, what we do is we create alignment with what’s going on inside and having an expressed out side and the feeling of that alignment, especially in relationship.
33:09
Oh my God, you can be in a relationship with someone and you both have like half of yourselves that aren’t actually relating at all.
33:15
You’re just in your own little private world, having your own conversation, having your own resentment, having your own, having your own man.
33:21
I wish I could say that.
33:22
But I’m so scared because what happens if I get abandoned, if I say that or whatever will happen, right?
33:27
And the feeling of that sucks.
33:30
The feeling of that is excruciating because you’re not, you can’t actually have intimacy.
33:35
So see, it sounds like a nice word, right?
33:39
Oh Intimacy.
33:40
Sometimes intimacy means like here’s a really fucking messy part of myself that I don’t know what to do with and it is really confused and is really angry and it’s kind of a total mess and here it is.
33:50
Yeah.
33:52
Yes.
33:53
And getting to do that and just be like if they can’t hold you be really received in it and held in it or at least acknowledged for it and seen for it.
34:02
Even if that person doesn’t give you exactly what you want in the perfect way that you want it.
34:06
You now know what it feels like for that part of you to not be secret somewhere, your body knows what it feels like for that to express.
34:13
So it’s like the beginning of what I would say is like this really, it’s so visceral.
34:19
I mean, I’m curious your experience of it.
34:21
So you’ve gone through a lot of it.
34:23
Hence the name of this podcast.
34:24
Yeah, I mean, I, I really hone it like, I think I’ve gone through that, like with specific people, I’ve been so blessed within my partnership to have someone that is safe and is ready for the feminine chaos and I can go wherever I wanna go with him.
34:38
Like I’ve been really blessed in that way.
34:40
But even in having a relationship that is where he has done a lot of his own work, I would say no matter how safe he made it, I still had to learn to work through the assumptions of like, I think you’re gonna judge me or I feel like you might leave me if I say this or you’re gonna look at me differently if I’m honestly about these things and I had to work through myself.
35:03
But I want to go back to what you said, like letting inviting them into that conversation, not necessarily inviting them into like the chaos just yet, but like the door that it takes to open up to whatever the messiness is, whatever the truth is, whatever is an alignment for you.
35:18
And like, I think I found so much intimacy and connection and just letting him into those conversations and then him being like, you know, receiving that and being like, no, I’m here for you, whatever it is and just talking through that and then getting to a place of like, truly opening up the messiness and like going on and be like, all right now, you know how I feel so that but I think my truth has always been like, in, if I honor my truth that I’m in a light because I realized for so long being someone that did not communicate openly or was more submissive or people pleaser or soft, I didn’t own my truth as honestly.
35:55
But by speaking it, like you said, it put me in alignment and that’s what I was fighting for at the end of the day, it was for me, it wasn’t for the person on the other side receiving it for my partner.
36:07
It’s for me.
36:09
And that’s really the thing that carried me into, like, even wanting to do that even though yes, scary and yes, there’s a ton with it.
36:17
But that totally, I mean, it’s amazing to watch and I’ve experienced this again.
36:23
Like I said, I’m going through another phase of this where the risk is all the fears that you’re gonna judge me.
36:30
You’re never gonna see me exactly what you said.
36:32
You’re never gonna see me in the same light we’re gonna break up, right?
36:35
Kind of like the ultimate fear, like you’re gonna leave me or we’re gonna be abandoned.
36:38
But like, ultimately this container is gonna change.
36:41
I’m ready for that, you know, like whatever, you know, like wanting to hold on to like the way that it looks exactly like the way, yeah, the way that it look, the way that it feels day to day and the normal.
36:52
But, but the thing is you’re exchanging, you’re taking the risk to create more intimacy and by really actually authentically expressing yourself, which does take the inner work and I wanna acknowledge that, like, it takes really excavating these different parts of yourself.
37:08
So that first and foremost, you have a phone line to them.
37:11
And that’s something that I repeat in Phoenix path a lot.
37:13
It’s like if you want someone to see you, you have to see yourself and if you want someone to hear you, you have to hear yourself.
37:19
And that is one of those things that is like, oh that sounds nice and cool and catchy.
37:23
But like actually when you see that mechanism happened, it feels like fucking magic because you’re all of a sudden in contact with truths that you have hidden even from yourself because you felt like you couldn’t have them, it wasn’t safe.
37:37
You get in contact with those and then you literally are moving through a process.
37:42
This also trips me out of developing things as a kid were stunted.
37:46
So part of why it feels so messy is because those parts expressing actually never got to.
37:53
And so yes, you are however old you are.
37:56
But this part that’s expressing is opening up parts of your throat and opening up connections between your mind and your heart or your, your sense of self and your environment.
38:07
Like so many different neurop pathways are firing that are brand new, that didn’t get to have the myelin sheath and didn’t get developed in the way that they’re like now solidified.
38:18
And so it feels hard or confusing or clunky or weird or scary because you’re literally actually in real time developing parts of yourself that didn’t get development.
38:29
But also back to the original point, like you get to be in relation, you get to be fully in relationship to the other person.
38:37
And I’ve gotten to places in my partnership where it’s like, no matter what happens on the other end of this, we will both know ourselves more and we will both be more connected and relating to each other in the most real way.
38:50
Not in this way of keeping the status quo, not in this way of how we need to be or how we should be, but not in the way of what’s been passed on from our parents.
38:59
But the realness of each other, no matter what that’s gonna bring us closer.
39:03
If that brings us closer in a way that the relationship changes, which is the risk, then if that’s our truest expression, that’s what love is here to do.
39:12
But if we don’t do that, I don’t know, like it, it seeps its way into everything.
39:17
Intimacy is less.
39:19
Sex is not as good like every day to day.
39:23
Yeah, it’s just, it’s like the quiet thing that you could not do.
39:28
But if you do it, everything gets more vivid totally.
39:32
And something that I feel like a lot of people get stuck in, I think is in the comfortable of it being that way like where it’s like, well, we’ve already, we’ve already created so much disconnect functioning in the way that we are like my nervous system, my ego, however we want to talk about it is like, very comfortable in saying here.
39:50
So like for even someone listen, you know what I mean?
39:52
Like they’re, they’re living the life, the relationship, they do all the quote unquote things, check off the boxes.
39:57
But like, you know, they’re not actually deeply connected and neither they think they’re living their truth by checking off the connections, but they’re not really living in their truth because not all of them is being expressed in their relationship.
40:10
There’s this like, cool disconnect that happens.
40:13
What would you say?
40:14
Is that part of us or how would you describe the part of us that chooses to stay comfortable in that, like, really, like I’m good here.
40:25
I mean, that sounds great and all, but I’m good.
40:28
I can say I’ve been doing this for 10, 5, 10, 2015, 30 50 years plus more.
40:34
Why would I even want to start that process?
40:38
But like, you know, the part of us that keeps us stuck.
40:41
Yeah, because this is the funny thing about defense systems and, and safety.
40:47
It’s like somewhere it’s safe.
40:49
But then that boats the question and I think this is a really important thing, especially with like the trauma informed, this is totally tangential and I won’t go off on it.
40:58
But the word safe and everything.
41:01
This obsession with everything being ultra, ultra, ultra safe and this from someone who, like, teaches trauma resolution team shows trauma informed stuff.
41:07
But we went like way too hardcore into safety land to the point where it’s like, well, what is safety, what does that word even actually mean?
41:15
And some people actually may be very happy with, like, look, I get it.
41:21
My partner has a lot of their own stuff going on and we don’t talk about this stuff and I have this other part of my life and or other part of me and like, I don’t share that with them.
41:31
I’m OK with that.
41:32
Like, that’s just the way that life is.
41:33
And I think that a lot of us I know for sure with me, if I look at my parents, like that’s, that’s kind of how the culture that they’re part of is.
41:41
And if I look at my grandparents, that’s definitely how the culture was.
41:45
So a couple generations back, like you just deal with it, you don’t need to do all of this other extra work.
41:51
That’s just the way that it is and that may work for people.
41:55
And also I’ve experienced that the more aware of myself that I get the more of this kind of work that I do to heal, to wake up parts of myself, to integrate all these different aspects of my psyche, to be more connected to my soul.
42:10
I am less and less comfortable being closed off in parts of myself in my life, especially my close partnerships and friendships, you know, like this, this ability to have this life of li living on the edge of my evolution is always so much more worth it then just muting myself, you know, and then it’s scary.
42:35
It doesn’t mean that I’m not afraid of it.
42:37
That doesn’t mean at times where I’m not like, why am I like this?
42:40
You know, it doesn’t mean that like that.
42:42
It’s, it’s always, you know, Nama stay.
42:46
But what I mean, ultimately is that like, it makes life more vivid if you’re truly want to be more connected to yourself, more in alignment with your soul’s expression and not feeling like everything is mundane and a little bit gray and like it’s ok, but it’s, but you can kind of feel there’s a flavor missing, you know, I would liken that to like, ok, great.
43:11
You have, you do your work, you come home, you watch TV and eat dinner and then you go to bed, maybe you have sex once a week and it’s all right and it’s good like you can do all of that and that’s great if that’s what you love.
43:23
But for me, man, that gets mundane, like also this strange thing has been happening to me recently because I’ve discovered parts of myself recently where I’m like, oh, that’s probably like matriarchal lineage stuff that you just don’t bring this up and you just don’t talk that way because you’re not supposed to in partnership.
43:43
Like things that I didn’t notice until recently.
43:46
And I realized that in my four year relationship, I only until the past six months have been muting all parts of myself.
43:56
But what’s also been muted is my meditations have been less vivid.
44:00
My writing flow has been far less wired.
44:04
My dreams have been less vivid, like the, the symbolism and the messages I get through my dreams have like they stopped for a long time.
44:11
And I didn’t know why my poetry, I started writing less poetry.
44:16
I would meditate and I would just feel less connected to this flow of connection to my soul.
44:21
And all of that started to come back when I started to express these things that I internally was like, you can’t, you don’t bring that here.
44:30
You don’t express that.
44:31
And I didn’t even expect that to happen.
44:34
But it makes so much sense.
44:35
You know, I was disconnecting from my soul’s voice.
44:38
So, yeah, it’s scary.
44:41
You don’t have to do it, but you get a lot more on the other side.
44:45
Totally.
44:45
At least my experience sounds like that’s experience.
44:49
Yeah.
44:49
No, 100%.
44:50
And I got a little teary eyed and like goose bumpy when you were talking about like, you know, I’m here for my evolution.
44:56
Like I’m so excited for like to continue to explore what that means for me and leaning into that and wanting to like, shed those layers because I believe in that same way, like, especially like in the last like two years, like, really, really finding that for myself.
45:10
And I’m like, I’ve been stuck in between either getting a tattoo for being expressed or for like my personal evolution.
45:15
I don’t know which word I’m gonna choose because that, that yummi that you’re talking about right now, like now that you started to do the risky, the edgy speaking the truth of your soul, it has sparked some kind of fire within you and brought back what’s really true within you.
45:32
And that’s what I feel as I lean into also expressing the things that are uncomfortable or doing the things that feel like, oh, this might not be right or I shouldn’t be doing this or like, is it too edgy?
45:44
Too big?
45:45
Is it gonna shift the way that people look at me?
45:48
Well, I mean, there’s just so many things like defense systems that you were talking about, which is something that we learned in the Phoenix path as well.
45:54
That come up and every time I lean into it, it like just like almost like pushes me, launches me back to like, oh, this is me, you know, like I know it’s just like, yeah, OK, I’m back.
46:05
This is cool and we have these signs around us that feel mundane that feel stuck, that feel gray that feel like that.
46:14
And we’re like, what the heck is going on and you’re like, what am I not being honest about, or what am I not being true about or like, what am I all these things?
46:24
And yeah, there’s just so much yummi that comes from leaning into the edge and being in that aliveness and it’s just so great.
46:32
Yes, it’s freaking scary.
46:33
But it’s still really, it feels really good when you receive it.
46:36
Yeah.
46:37
It’s like the difference between eating, you know, mcdonald’s and being like, well, it’s like, kind of tastes fine and I’m not hungry anymore to like eating like a five star gourmet meal and being like, whoa, this, this is different, you know, and I’m like, or worse kind of addicted to that feeling of like, oh my God, this is me.
47:00
Like, this is the full expression of the truth of myself.
47:05
And it’s, I think it’s hard when you’re, I mean, I get it like I’ve been, I’m sure you have too, like, rev been on those, on the edge of those places where you’re like, oh, I don’t really want to go into that territory because it’s gonna bring up a bunch of stuff and it seems better not to like the gray can feel, it can feel good, good.
47:27
I can feel cozy to hang out in, but it’s never been, I can, I don’t know.
47:34
I’m curious about your experience with this for me.
47:36
If I look at like, has it ever not been worth it to lean into that edge and express myself, especially in the way that, like, life shows up, like all the synchronicities start happening again.
47:48
Like, it’s like life turns on in this whole other, like, video game mode that I don’t know, it’s never not been worth it.
47:54
No, I feel like life has always met me in, in it in some way.
47:59
right?
47:59
Like, and I also think that it depends on the mindset that I’ve been in because if I’ve leaned into something you like, oh, well, now it doesn’t work, you know, like see all the negative.
48:09
But I think the more that I’ve experienced how life has met me, the more open I am to seeing, seeing how life is meeting me continuing to meet me if that makes sense.
48:20
So totally, I do wanna also shift into a lot of what I learned in the Phoenix path that I think is really important and a lot of what we’re talking about like the expression of self and not like that one as a practitioner.
48:36
What can we do to create capacity?
48:39
I mean, this is the other thing that the Phoenix pass gave me was such a it helped me create capacity to fully hold someone’s expression and be in that and navigate that with eyes and lenses that I didn’t even know I needed, right?
48:55
Like I was just like, wait, I can see things so much differently now.
49:00
Like this person is going through this entire experience and I’m not just gonna use my words to try and guide them out of it.
49:07
Like I can see what’s actually happening.
49:09
Like and I have the tools to be able to do that versus like before the Phoenix path, I think intuitively, I my body knew what was going on, but truly being able to put words to what the client was experiencing in their expression, which with whether it was freeze fun fight or flight, like whatever was coming up for them, one, what can we do to create capacity to hold the client in that?
49:32
And what does it actually look like to navigate someone honestly through that experience?
49:37
And what does the client feel on the other side of that, which I think is a whole another element to this?
49:45
I, so I’m totally, I will totally answer that question.
49:47
But I’m curious from your perspective, going through the experience of that and, and feeling like, oh, my capacity is shifting.
49:54
I have more capacity or I’m not as maybe caught in like one phase of something or having to figure it out as a practitioner.
50:02
Like what do you think contributed to that if you were to look back on it?
50:06
Because I know we, I mean, the fact that we went through like such a long intensive training, there’s a lot of things.
50:11
But I’m curious for you?
50:13
Like what you, I think mapping out my own system was really, really helpful.
50:19
I think we did at the beginning, like, very much like identifying where I, when I would be in fight or flight or when I would be in a fun state.
50:26
I never was really in like a much of a free state.
50:28
I was always like fight or flight in some relationships, especially like family relationships.
50:34
If I got there at my go to has always been a fun response, trauma response.
50:40
And so like mapping out my own system was probably the most helpful.
50:44
And then when we were in sessions with people and holding space because, you know, I don’t know if you’re doing it the same way this way, but we were able to actually practice what we learned each week and we would go back and forth in practicing on one another.
50:58
You know, I remember specifically you might remember this, there was someone on the call that was more fiery than I was and I started to, even if she was, they were not necessarily like being fiery towards me just energetically held more fire.
51:14
Oh My system would freak the fuck out.
51:16
Like I was just like all of a sudden my brain was like, I was thinking too much.
51:22
I was sweating, like not much was going on.
51:25
And then after being able to first map my system and then put myself in the room with different people and their energies and where they’re at.
51:32
I was like, oh ding, ding, ding, this is what’s going on.
51:36
And then I was able to be with that and work through that.
51:39
But I think really learning how to map my system was probably the biggest tool that gave me throughout the entire time because I was able to not only see them in their system but just see how my system reacted to them in their system.
51:51
Yeah, see this to me is the the goal like and this is also what a lot of modalities are missing.
51:59
And this is like from someone who used to teach some of those modalities, I find self knowledge to be one of the most important parts of being a really good leader and practitioner period.
52:11
End of story because you are your own instrument, it’s like I could teach a whole room full of people than we do to do the same technique.
52:21
But the reason why I lead in with so as to your question, like, what can practitioners do to get better and to build more capacity, study your self, like a specimen, study yourself with the right teachers who will hold you and reflect you and see the uniqueness of your system and help you understand yourself, not by telling you about yourself, but by being curious and asking you questions.
52:44
So you discover the like visceral experiences of your different states and the different mechanisms that are going on because you can understand all that shit in your head.
52:53
Like there’s 20 million books about and all the personality tests.
52:58
But like, I work like this but like when it’s happening, what’s going on when you’re triggered, when a client triggers you, when I don’t know, like a sales call triggers you when your partner triggers you, when your family triggers you, when you notice a shift from one state to another, like really taking time to track and to map what is going on.
53:19
And I think that if I were to teach practitioners and I have in the past by other people with other modalities, which is why I took everything that I liked from different modalities and then put in like my own sauce to them.
53:30
If you were to teach someone a bunch of different modalities and techniques without them understanding and knowing themselves, then we will inherently intellectualize it and we will come to our clients more intellectual because we get it up here, which is beautiful and we need to, right?
53:47
But if you don’t know your own system, we are human beings.
53:51
We create regulation like through my voice right now to anyone that’s listening and to you, I’m communicating my nervous system state.
54:00
I’m communicating to your animal body, what my animal body is feeling, right?
54:05
So for me to understand and, and embody different states and track my state changes and understand my, what triggers me and what doesn’t and why and then move into creating regulation there first as an instrument before I’m using whatever techniques I’m using, it will make the technique that you’re using work a million times better, a million times better because of your state because of your awareness, right?
54:33
Even even in the the basic teaching of compassion, like for the reason why I’m able to be so compassionate for all the like messy, crazy parts of everyone is because I know my own shit.
54:44
Like I know how crazy and messy I can get, I understand like the full spectrum of the human experience, I have unsocial myself so much that like you could bring whatever at me for the most part.
54:56
And I would be like, OK, cool.
54:58
Tell me more about that.
54:59
Like what does that part feel?
55:00
Like?
55:00
You know, it’s hard to phase me.
55:02
And so through that like the clients and the students that I have, they feel that I don’t need to communicate like, hey, you can bring whatever at me.
55:10
I mean, I do but intrinsically you can feel how much I’ve got you because of how much I’ve had to learn to get me.
55:18
And so I think there’s an intuitive knowing of like if you take time to map your own system, your own states, you know, a lot of us, a lot of people that come to me are caught in fight mode, they’re like in mission mode all the time they don’t know how to slow down because slowing down feels like dying.
55:34
So coming to a session and being like, it can feel quote unquote productive but actually learning to work with like, oh, why am I in that state?
55:43
Oh my gosh, I am going really fast.
55:45
Ok.
55:46
What happens to my body when I go fast?
55:48
What happens to my voice?
55:49
How do I like very like, like mapping every part of your different states which I’m huge on and the reason I’m huge on it because it works not because you can now have a journal that you can show me and be like just actually this and this and this is how I feel.
56:04
That’s all great.
56:05
You can have your own map of yourself.
56:07
But as you’re doing that, you’re bringing presents all these different parts of yourself, the more you do that, the better practitioner, you are any modality.
56:16
So I think self knowledge and doing your own work just it just translates, it’s what makes the most masterful people.
56:23
And then to your question about how that affects client results.
56:25
I think I kind of answered that like your clients feel your states, you know, we’re constant whether we want to or not.
56:32
We’re like, am I safe for this person?
56:34
Like does this person really got me, do I need to perform for this person?
56:39
Like being a good student?
56:41
Like the parts of us are like, I wanna be a good student.
56:43
I wanna be a good client.
56:44
OK?
56:44
I’m just gonna do this session the way that I’m supposed to do it to be a good client.
56:48
It’s like if your practitioner can’t catch that, you’re gonna do the, the whole session.
56:53
Like, OK, I’m going through all the steps, I’m doing it right.
56:56
You know.
56:56
So I think it’s important to understand like your own, your own system, first and foremost, map the basics, do the body scans, do all the journaling prompts about basic somatic foundational work.
57:07
You know, and if you don’t know where to find those, I’m sure you’ve got a bunch of stuff, you can give your people, I’ve got a bunch of stuff.
57:13
I can give your people like ABC, you wanna be a good fellow, you wanna be a good poet and be a good songwriter, like learn your own, a bit of yourself first and foremost.
57:23
Yeah.
57:23
Yeah.
57:24
Like get to know you.
57:25
Like when you said earlier too, like I have felt like a shift too.
57:29
Like I’ve always been someone like go for it.
57:32
I want to see that part of you.
57:33
What do you feel when you let it out?
57:34
Like I’m here for that, but now it’s like a whole another level of like you can bring me whatever and I’m here for it because a I think by mapping my own system too, I’m so much more unattached from the stories that I’ve created about the different parts of me.
57:51
And so in return, I’m able to do that for the people that I love, you know, like, not just relationships but clients, but I can also be like, there’s really no judgment to what you’re experiencing.
58:02
It, it’s here and that’s ok and I’m not, and that took me getting to a place of not judging my own parts because, you know, on a deeper level and someone can feel that.
58:14
And I know too, I think I wanna say it’s 75% of communication is all energetic and embodiment, like really none of it embodied language.
58:23
And so as much as you say, things, there’s such a difference and actually feeling the person and knowing that they can truly be with anything that is coming up.
58:34
And then the last part that you said so beautifully, I’m now having a brain fart, but it was like right there.
58:43
oh, the body awareness that you’re talking to, you know, like, that’s another thing that this work has been such a blessing for the somatics is like, truly knowing when my body is like in such an intense state and like recognizing like, truly, like immediately knowing like, oh, I’m in fight or flight, I’m like shoulders are up, I’m I’m tight, like I’m barely breathing and it’s so crazy that unless you bring the awareness and create the practice of bringing presents to yourself, you could live your whole life feeling that way and never realize how contracted or stressed or closed off or disassociated you are because that’s your norm.
59:21
And there’s such a beautiful gift that comes from mapping yourself out and bringing such a beautiful presence to your body because you’re like, wow, I know my body very well.
59:31
I’m clearly triggered right now, like very or I am not really present.
59:36
I am in the moon.
59:37
You know, I’m, I’m, I’m somewhere else or I’m focusing so hard on work that I’m barely breathing, you know, like there’s so many things that our body is already doing for us.
59:47
It’s just a matter of us kind of learning to be with it in the moment.
59:50
Oh my God.
59:51
And it’s so helpful, right?
59:52
Like it’s so awful to be like, ok, I am super angry and shut down and basically, like I can feel it from my state or my sense of myself or the way that my body is positioned or the way that I feel viscerally physically.
1:00:11
And so what do I know from that?
1:00:12
Well, I know that I’m probably perceiving the world a certain way.
1:00:15
I’m probably perceiving you a certain way.
1:00:17
I’m probably gonna say something that is from a protective part of myself and I know that that normally doesn’t actually get me what I want, even though it’s very riveting, it’s very riveting to stay disassociated because like I’m fine, whatever.
1:00:32
I don’t know, you know, it’s like our own little personal built in Valium that we have when we dissociate, you know, and to bring lucidity to that is, it’s amazing.
1:00:45
And I think there’s something that translates so much better when you see it in yourself because you recognize it in people way more.
1:00:52
You know, I know my disassociation or I know other people’s associations of all because I’ve known my own, I know my pent up anger or rage or whatever it is because because I know my own.
1:01:04
And so I think also one of the ways that, that bleeds into like client work or like group work, you’re always gonna have things that may back to you your own states.
1:01:13
And like one thing that I’ve had a lot of is I’ve been very anti authority.
1:01:18
So what did I attract?
1:01:20
Well, quite a bit of people who would test me.
1:01:23
There would always be like 1 to 4 students who would be in like a low power dynamic with me.
1:01:28
And it still happens sometimes and it’s always interesting to be like, oh OK, that’s, that’s where you want to play right now.
1:01:34
OK.
1:01:34
Great.
1:01:35
I gonna demonize that.
1:01:36
No, because I get it like I used to do that, you know, and I know why I used to do it.
1:01:42
Do I know how to kung fu around it more because I actually know what’s going on underneath.
1:01:47
Absolutely.
1:01:48
But no one was like, hey, here’s how to deal with power dynamics in a session if I like, I teach that now because I know it well, but I know how to deal with that because I know myself so well.
1:02:01
I know what I needed.
1:02:02
I know what that person is actually saying or asking for behind their words.
1:02:06
And that’s just one example, you know, like there’s a lot of different examples when I have a close friend who, like when they shut down, they really want you to, to engage.
1:02:18
But most people are like, oh, you’re shut down, I’m gonna not engage you, you know, and to know like, OK, I’m gonna take the risk and actually go in more, all that stuff comes from a lot of self knowledge.
1:02:31
And then like you said, also cross pollinating with a lot of different kinds of systems.
1:02:35
You can’t beat that.
1:02:37
I think there’s something about constantly getting exposed to other people’s systems that really helps too.
1:02:41
I love how you said that because especially the last one I can relate to that.
1:02:44
Like, whenever I would shut down, all I wanted was someone to ask me how it really was.
1:02:48
Yeah, I could never say that because yes, also my energy was so distant and blocked off and whatever.
1:02:55
But at the end of the day, that’s all that I ever wanted was someone to lean in.
1:02:59
And so I think I also see how creating capacity for ourselves and like how you created about like, I can lean in, like, let me lean in and meet you where you’re at versus just giving you space.
1:03:10
And there’s also, I think it depends on where they’re at.
1:03:12
Right.
1:03:12
There’s always like, hey, it’s a little further away boundaries.
1:03:15
I get it not crossing them just, like, genuinely knowing.
1:03:18
That is so beautiful.
1:03:20
Yeah.
1:03:20
Not taking it personally.
1:03:21
I think also, I think that’s another thing that I try to catch should be a lot.
1:03:25
But like when I notice when students get it, like when someone’s defense system comes up and you don’t take it personally and you actually learn that muscle of like being curious, it changes so many things, it changes so many things.
1:03:39
So, yeah, it’s, that’s a whole another one.
1:03:41
I wish we had time to do that.
1:03:43
I was like, at this point, I was like, that’s such a huge one of not taking it personally because that comes up in relationships in life and business all the time and every situation, even, even clients, you know, like knowing that it’s not at you, it’s just them, you know, in that moment and going through their experience.
1:04:02
But maybe we can have another episode on just that, that’s a whole another thing.
1:04:08
But what I would love for you to share is talk a little bit about Phoenix path where it’s when we so where can someone sign up?
1:04:16
When is the deadline to sign up?
1:04:18
What does it look like?
1:04:20
Because I would love to share obviously this container that completely changed my life with other people and other people that are listening to this.
1:04:27
So if you could just share all the details, that would be so great.
1:04:30
Yeah.
1:04:31
So I feel like we’ve talked about it so much that I’m like if the basics of it or it’s a trauma informed and trauma trained practitioner training, it’s a six month certification.
1:04:42
You will be practicing and going through all of the things that you are learning just as much as like you’ll be receiving as client just as much as you will be practicing as practitioner for all the reasons that we just went off on for like half an hour.
1:04:57
And you’ll also be learning a fair amount for me.
1:05:01
There’s two retreats that are included that can be attended in person in Boulder or Colorado or virtually.
1:05:07
And so you can, if you’re like in Europe or in another country, you can attend as well virtually.
1:05:12
And then you can sign up.
1:05:14
My name is Jessica Benstock.
1:05:16
It’s Jessica Benstock dot com slash the dash Phoenix dash path.
1:05:22
And if you just go to Jessica Benstock dot com, it’s under programs, you can also check out my website and different things.
1:05:30
Testimonials.
1:05:31
There’s tons of testimonials on there as well from SU K is one of them.
1:05:35
My Instagrams.
1:05:37
Great.
1:05:37
It’s Jessica dot Benstock on Instagram.
1:05:40
And yeah, if you, if a practitioner training like that sounds exciting to you.
1:05:46
Like I promise you, I pour my heart and soul into this thing.
1:05:50
I love my people and stand for you so much.
1:05:54
And I know, like I can say, with absolute certainty that you come out of it changed and transformed and way more confident in your skills to hold space.
1:06:03
And if you’re like, I don’t need a whole practitioner training in six months.
1:06:07
And that sounds like a big investment of time and money.
1:06:09
That’s totally fine.
1:06:10
I also have something called center, which is a semantic toolkit for emotional mastery.
1:06:14
And that is a self paced course.
1:06:17
So you can do that on your own.
1:06:19
And there are six pretty dense modules about different forms of emotional mastery, as well as an entire library of nervous system regulation practices and emotional processing and the repression tools.
1:06:31
And that’s called center.
1:06:32
That’s also on my website.
1:06:34
So good.
1:06:35
Yeah, I highly recommend anyone listening.
1:06:37
And also even if you’re just like a client, not even someone that wants to be a practitioner, really, I think searching for this practice to perceive is also one of the biggest gifts that I think we can just give each other on a personal level.
1:06:52
So maybe working with a practitioner that is somatic informed or has gone through one of your programs would be received just the blessings that we all talked about, right?
1:07:00
It’s such a you don’t have to be necessarily just a practitioner.
1:07:03
But Jess, thank you so much for coming on to here and speaking with you.
1:07:09
You have no idea.
1:07:10
Again, like the blessings that you have created in my life, the way that I feel who I am, what I believe in and how I express myself is such a testament to being able to work with you in that container.
1:07:21
Not even one on one.
1:07:22
I can’t even imagine what one on one with you would be, but like in that container feels so intimate as well.
1:07:28
So yeah, thank you so much.
1:07:29
This was absolutely amazing.
1:07:31
You’re so welcome.
1:07:32
Thank you so much for having me on.
1:07:34
It’s so good to connect with you and see where you’re at now.
1:07:36
Thank you and then for those listening, I’ll make sure to put all of that in the show notes for you again.
1:07:43
If you like this episode, please share that with someone that might be interested in listening to it.
1:07:49
Ha Us on Instagram if you got a chance to listen to it.
1:07:53
And with that being said, sending you all so much love.
1:07:56
Thank you.
1:07:57
Bye.
